It's too bad we can't press a button to look 10-15 years into the future to see how this turns out. How many of these kids will be in some kind of therapy? How many will turn out to be gay because of their upbringing? Will any harbor resentment and anger and act-out violently?
And what is for me the most important question, do we need to take a rational, realistic, and sane look at our adoption laws?
“I think that we’ve proven that both parents are important in the success of a family, so, no, I don’t believe in gay adoption. I encourage adoption and I encourage the opportunities for people to adopt children. I encourage the process being less complicated so they can adopt as quickly as possible. And Cindy and I are proud of being adoptive parents."
I was so depressed last night thinking about the economy, the wars, jobs, Savings, Social Security, retirement funds, etc. I called Lifeline. Got a freakin' call center in Pakistan. I told them I was suicidal...
They all got excited and asked if I could drive a truck...
Yes, sick. I mean, those foster kids would be WAAAAYYY better off living in a government shelter for the unwanted, and the adoptive kids probably should have been aborted.
As long as sexuality stays in the bedroom, and the parents aren't actively recruiting (ie, they aren't sexually abusing the kids, in essence) then how the hell do you know if this is sick or not?
Is it optimal? Hell no. A loving father and a loving mother is optimal, but these kids have a way better chance with two loving parents than a small majority of kids who only have ONE parent, or god forbid, like the foster kids in this article, NONE AT ALL.
As far as the optimal condition is concerned, a drunkard father who beats his kids because his passive wife won't stop him is far worse than two loving men raising these kids.
You disagree with it. Fine. But think about the alternative. No foster Dad's for the four living there means a government shelter for the lot of them.
No adoptive Dads for the adopted kids means the same, or worse: they could have been aborted. .
How many of these kids will be in some kind of therapy?
For what? What mental illness is caused by being exposed to homosexuals when you are a child?
How many will turn out to be gay because of their upbringing?
How many turn out gay because their hetero father abused the shit out of them when they were children? Show me the scientific literature that proves that children raised by gays turn out gay, then I'll start worrying. For now, the studies that have been done show no link to increased prevalence of homsexuality in children raised by gays.
Will any harbor resentment and anger and act-out violently?
Anger and resentment for what? Being lucky enough to have two people love you enough to meet your needs as a child and raise you as their own, instead of lettign you be raised by the streets or an uncaring government beauracracy? I'm curious as to what you think they'll be "lashing out at" in anger and resentment.
do we need to take a rational, realistic, and sane look at our adoption laws?
Absolutely. I'd like to know, myself, if there is any harm being done to children in being raised in homsoexual households. If so, then we need to do something about it. My gut (and the scientific studies done on the subject to date) tells me that you'll find that there is nothing there to worry about, however.
Do I really need to search the web to show you hundreds and hundreds of examples of that same situation happening, only with heterosexual couples?
You don't have to be gay to be a bastard, a bad example, and a bad parent. They most certainly do not hold the patent on that, we breeders have been doing a fine job of it for millenia. Besides, this wasn't an adoptive parent, this was a live-in boyfriend, which more or less opens my previous example up a thousand fold.
Tell me that you've never seen a story of a live-in boyfriend being a bastard and physically assaulting his girlfriend for catching him cheating, in front of her kids.
The gay part has nothing to do with this story.
If you make the argument that because this one gay man was an unfit parental unit, that all gay men are unfit parents, you've just committed a slippery slope fallacy that means we are all unfit for parenthood, because can find examples of bad parenting in any gender, racial, societal, cultural, or sexual orientation group, anywhere.
And of course, lets not display homosexual parenthood as a desired option, but rather, just an alternative that is a bit better than what the government provides. (refering to Goober's comment more than the article)
Sorta like telling the single black mother that getting a little government money is better than not having any father support at all....and failing to limit how many babies they will pay for.
Both are tried and true methods of keeping someone a second class citizen...from generation to generation.
I gotta tell ya, good parenting has NOTHING to do with sexual orientation. One of the nicest, most worthwhile guys I know is my older son's best friend from jr high and high school, Barry. His dad is gay. I guess he discovered his gay leanings later in life, it happens. Barry's mother is a hetero, straight laced, thrice married, bible thumping, BITCH. Barry's half-sisters, raised by his mother and step-father, are mean, selfish, whiny versions of MOM.
The step-dad gave up his spine and nuts when he married this winner. So if Barry had grown up there, he would have had no male role model to speak of. As it is, his real father is a hard working, likable, worthwhile member of society. His real dad neither flaunts nor "acts" gayness.
I don't know these guys in this article. They may be great parents, or they ma be terrible parents, but the fact that they are gay doesn't enter into it.
And for the record, I have gay friends and acquaintances. Most of them are the same way about sex and their kids, as hetero parents are. They hope that they'll wait for some appropriate age to start.
Being gay doesn't make you a child abuser or molester or gay sex promoter. That's a stupid, archaic way of thinking.
I know gay and lesbian couples who do and would be better parents than mant straight people. I don't think that they're going to be screwed up worse that the strsaight families in many cases, just screwed up differently, but not as bad perhaps as some of these alternatives for these kids. However, some gay and lesbian couples don't look to adopt, but to have surrgate children, to order, picking the parents beforehand. I'm more apt to thinking this is pushing it a bit, when they can adopt kids who already need a home. Or is it that they these gay folks are too good for that?
"Being gay doesn't make you a child abuser or molester or gay sex promoter. That's a stupid, archaic way of thinking."
What is truly stupid and naive is to assume these kids will not be influenced by the atmosphere they are raised in, which is abnormal. As for the other poster who's looking for "scientific evidence" that they will some how grow up wrong, how about providing some scientific evidence that they won't? How many gays do you know who are truly happy, and not just for the TV cameras or talk shows?
Anon, all I'm saying is that MY PERSONAL experiences, don't show these kids to be any more / less screwed up than kids from hetero families.
Yes, I too think being gay is abnormal, but the idea of a "normal" family is just as much BS. The standard line in the country from pointed headed liberals is "disfunctionl family" when things go wring. OK, show me a "functional family". We all have emotional bumps and scars from our families. Mainly because our parents are human too. Where do you fall in the birth order? I'm the oldest kid, of 4, i.e. the guinea pig. My sister, the youngest had a great childhood, but my parents were very experienced by then too. My personal experience tells me the "functional family" is a myth, the Huxtables and the Cleavers and Andy Griffith are mythology.
There are so few straight, married for life, conservative, church going, Boy Scout / Girl Scout attending, All-American families left, that it seems hard to find them. Ergo, the official numbers on functionality are skewed, and all I've got to go on is what I'm living.
My personal feeling is this, I believe that homosexuality is wrong, my religious training tells me so. But to assume that those people are worse parents than straight people defies quantification. IF the GLAAD numbers are right, 10% to 15% of Americans are gay or leaning, then why are 90% of American children, mean, rotten, ill behaved, spoiled little pieces of selfishness?
Are hard working, loving, honest gay parents a better bet than some straight parents, I gotta say yes. I know some straight parents who should have been neutered!! (my dead sister's husband is one such, I know, and know of, countless others) But again, the gay people I know want their kids to be happy, healthy, well loved and well educated and I've not met one of them YET, who puts their kids sexuality out front.
Being gay IMHO is like a club foot or any other birth defect. It's a person shaped outwardly like a man or woman, wired inside the opposite way. We know people are genetically predisposed for addictive behavior, mental illness, diseases of all sorts, etc. To me the difference is this, some people work to overcome their malady, some people wallow in it, the GLAAD crowd has made it a cause and a lifestyle.
I think they re wrong, but it's probably better to be raised by two mommies or two daddies, than by many of the worthless fucks I know of.
And here's my last thought.
Kids now, and for the last 20 odd years anyway, treat sex the way kids in my teen and twenties years treated drugs. It may have scared mom and dad and Nixon to death, but we thought nothing of it. They have no fear, loathing or sense of propriety having mixed partner, mixed sex role, multi-partner sex, or even group sex. The gub'ment has seen fit, and is hide bound to aid and abet this foolishness across the board, in the name of personal freedom.
Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure this falls under the historical heading of bread and circuses, and will kill our civilization. But it goes much deeper too, than just good or bad parenting.
how about providing some scientific evidence that they won't?
Ignoramus... How many times do you need to be told that it is physically impossible to prove a negative? It cannot be done. YOU are making the claim that being raised by homosexuals is harmful, so YOU prove it.
Four friends, who hadn't seen each other in 30 years, reunited at a party. After several drinks, one of the men had to use the rest room.
Those who remained talked about their kids.
The first guy said, 'My son is my pride and joy. He started working at a successful company at the bottom of the barrel. He studied Economics and Business Administration and soon began to climb the corporate ladder and now he's the president of the company. He became so rich that he gave his best friend a top of the line Mercedes for his birthday.'
The second guy said, 'Darn, that's terrific! My son is also my pride and joy. He started working for a big airline, then went to flight school to become a pilot. Eventually he became a partner in the company, where he owns the majority of its assets He's so rich that he gave his best friend a brand new jet for his birthday.'
The third man said, 'Well, that's terrific! My son studied in the best universities and became an engineer. Then he started his own construction company and is now a multimillionaire. He also gave away something very nice and expensive to his best friend for his birthday: A 30,000 square foot mansion.'
The three friends congratulated each other just as the fourth returned from the restroom and asked: 'What are all the congratulations for?'
One of the three said, 'We were talking about the pride we feel for the successes of our sons ... What about your son?'
The fourth man replied, 'My son is gay and makes a living dancing as a stripper at a nightclub.'
The three friends said: 'What a shame ... What a disappointment.' The fourth man replied: 'No, I'm not ashamed. He's my son and I love him. And he hasn't done too bad either. His birthday was 2 weeks ago, and he received a beautiful 30,000 square foot mansion, a brand new jet and a top of the line Mercedes from his three boyfriends..
Actually, Goober, the onus is on you for proof. The norm for a family is children with mom and dad and sometimes with a single parent (though that has shown to be far inferior to a 2 hetero parent model). Homosexuals adopting children is outside the proven norm so in order to allow it the proof should be on those in favor of it to show that it is not harmful. You just can't introduce a new kind of family and then say "prove its not good." That that is the homosexual MO, to introduce something new to society and put the burden of proof on society to prove its bad. The correct response is to toss that burden onto the change agent but you have fallen for the propaganda. If you want to learn what you fell for I suggest reading the gay rights manifesto "After the Ball."
Missy, I'm not going to disagree with your statements, but I think "norm" is the wrong word. "Traditional" is what I think you meant. "Norm" is the term the pointy headed liberals WANT us to use, so as to imply our disdain for their NON-norm behavior.
It's the same kind of word game they play with abortion supporters being pro-CHOICE, not pro-KILLING of fetuses.
I think I like the word "normal" or even "natural" as traditional implies hetero parenting as just a tradition when in fact its based on biology and sexual reproduction and just the human design where its best to be raised of parents of opposite sexes.
Yea BOW I love those cars that have bumper stickers that say "Meat is Murder" "Save the Whales" "Hug a Tree" "Stop Animal Testing Now" and of course "I am Pro Choice".
29 comments:
Awwww. That's so sweet.
And which one is HLF?
It's too bad we can't press a button to look 10-15 years into the future to see how this turns out. How many of these kids will be in some kind of therapy? How many will turn out to be gay because of their upbringing? Will any harbor resentment and anger and act-out violently?
And what is for me the most important question, do we need to take a rational, realistic, and sane look at our adoption laws?
“I think that we’ve proven that both parents are important in the success of a family, so, no, I don’t believe in gay adoption. I encourage adoption and I encourage the opportunities for people to adopt children. I encourage the process being less complicated so they can adopt as quickly as possible. And Cindy and I are proud of being adoptive parents."
John McCain
I was so depressed last night thinking about the economy, the wars, jobs, Savings, Social Security, retirement funds, etc. I called Lifeline. Got a freakin' call center in Pakistan. I told them I was suicidal...
They all got excited and asked if I could drive a truck...
sick
Yes, sick. I mean, those foster kids would be WAAAAYYY better off living in a government shelter for the unwanted, and the adoptive kids probably should have been aborted.
As long as sexuality stays in the bedroom, and the parents aren't actively recruiting (ie, they aren't sexually abusing the kids, in essence) then how the hell do you know if this is sick or not?
Is it optimal? Hell no. A loving father and a loving mother is optimal, but these kids have a way better chance with two loving parents than a small majority of kids who only have ONE parent, or god forbid, like the foster kids in this article, NONE AT ALL.
As far as the optimal condition is concerned, a drunkard father who beats his kids because his passive wife won't stop him is far worse than two loving men raising these kids.
You disagree with it. Fine. But think about the alternative. No foster Dad's for the four living there means a government shelter for the lot of them.
No adoptive Dads for the adopted kids means the same, or worse: they could have been aborted. .
How many of these kids will be in some kind of therapy?
For what? What mental illness is caused by being exposed to homosexuals when you are a child?
How many will turn out to be gay because of their upbringing?
How many turn out gay because their hetero father abused the shit out of them when they were children? Show me the scientific literature that proves that children raised by gays turn out gay, then I'll start worrying. For now, the studies that have been done show no link to increased prevalence of homsexuality in children raised by gays.
Will any harbor resentment and anger and act-out violently?
Anger and resentment for what? Being lucky enough to have two people love you enough to meet your needs as a child and raise you as their own, instead of lettign you be raised by the streets or an uncaring government beauracracy? I'm curious as to what you think they'll be "lashing out at" in anger and resentment.
do we need to take a rational, realistic, and sane look at our adoption laws?
Absolutely. I'd like to know, myself, if there is any harm being done to children in being raised in homsoexual households. If so, then we need to do something about it. My gut (and the scientific studies done on the subject to date) tells me that you'll find that there is nothing there to worry about, however.
Goober - on the other hand there is this one
Mulberry mayor attacked by live-in cross-dresser
Mulberry is situated between Mayberry and Dingleberry
Blue, you can't be serious, right?
Do I really need to search the web to show you hundreds and hundreds of examples of that same situation happening, only with heterosexual couples?
You don't have to be gay to be a bastard, a bad example, and a bad parent. They most certainly do not hold the patent on that, we breeders have been doing a fine job of it for millenia. Besides, this wasn't an adoptive parent, this was a live-in boyfriend, which more or less opens my previous example up a thousand fold.
Tell me that you've never seen a story of a live-in boyfriend being a bastard and physically assaulting his girlfriend for catching him cheating, in front of her kids.
The gay part has nothing to do with this story.
If you make the argument that because this one gay man was an unfit parental unit, that all gay men are unfit parents, you've just committed a slippery slope fallacy that means we are all unfit for parenthood, because can find examples of bad parenting in any gender, racial, societal, cultural, or sexual orientation group, anywhere.
Certainly not an ideal situation. Not Ward and June Cleaver. Butt what is?
And of course, lets not display homosexual parenthood as a desired option, but rather, just an alternative that is a bit better than what the government provides. (refering to Goober's comment more than the article)
Sorta like telling the single black mother that getting a little government money is better than not having any father support at all....and failing to limit how many babies they will pay for.
Both are tried and true methods of keeping someone a second class citizen...from generation to generation.
We're just "helping the children"...
Rick's Cafe
I gotta tell ya, good parenting has NOTHING to do with sexual orientation. One of the nicest, most worthwhile guys I know is my older son's best friend from jr high and high school, Barry. His dad is gay. I guess he discovered his gay leanings later in life, it happens. Barry's mother is a hetero, straight laced, thrice married, bible thumping, BITCH. Barry's half-sisters, raised by his mother and step-father, are mean, selfish, whiny versions of MOM.
The step-dad gave up his spine and nuts when he married this winner. So if Barry had grown up there, he would have had no male role model to speak of. As it is, his real father is a hard working, likable, worthwhile member of society. His real dad neither flaunts nor "acts" gayness.
I don't know these guys in this article. They may be great parents, or they ma be terrible parents, but the fact that they are gay doesn't enter into it.
And for the record, I have gay friends and acquaintances. Most of them are the same way about sex and their kids, as hetero parents are. They hope that they'll wait for some appropriate age to start.
Being gay doesn't make you a child abuser or molester or gay sex promoter. That's a stupid, archaic way of thinking.
I know gay and lesbian couples who do and would be better parents than mant straight people. I don't think that they're going to be screwed up worse that the strsaight families in many cases, just screwed up differently, but not as bad perhaps as some of these alternatives for these kids. However, some gay and lesbian couples don't look to adopt, but to have surrgate children, to order, picking the parents beforehand. I'm more apt to thinking this is pushing it a bit, when they can adopt kids who already need a home. Or is it that they these gay folks are too good for that?
"Being gay doesn't make you a child abuser or molester or gay sex promoter. That's a stupid, archaic way of thinking."
What is truly stupid and naive is to assume these kids will not be influenced by the atmosphere they are raised in, which is abnormal. As for the other poster who's looking for "scientific evidence" that they will some how grow up wrong, how about providing some scientific evidence that they won't? How many gays do you know who are truly happy, and not just for the TV cameras or talk shows?
QUOTABLE QUOTES
"The opera isn't over until the last heterosexual falls asleep."
– Al Bundy
Anon,
all I'm saying is that MY PERSONAL experiences, don't show these kids to be any more / less screwed up than kids from hetero families.
Yes, I too think being gay is abnormal, but the idea of a "normal" family is just as much BS. The standard line in the country from pointed headed liberals is "disfunctionl family" when things go wring. OK, show me a "functional family". We all have emotional bumps and scars from our families. Mainly because our parents are human too. Where do you fall in the birth order? I'm the oldest kid, of 4, i.e. the guinea pig. My sister, the youngest had a great childhood, but my parents were very experienced by then too. My personal experience tells me the "functional family" is a myth, the Huxtables and the Cleavers and Andy Griffith are mythology.
There are so few straight, married for life, conservative, church going, Boy Scout / Girl Scout attending, All-American families left, that it seems hard to find them. Ergo, the official numbers on functionality are skewed, and all I've got to go on is what I'm living.
My personal feeling is this, I believe that homosexuality is wrong, my religious training tells me so. But to assume that those people are worse parents than straight people defies quantification. IF the GLAAD numbers are right, 10% to 15% of Americans are gay or leaning, then why are 90% of American children, mean, rotten, ill behaved, spoiled little pieces of selfishness?
Are hard working, loving, honest gay parents a better bet than some straight parents, I gotta say yes. I know some straight parents who should have been neutered!! (my dead sister's husband is one such, I know, and know of, countless others) But again, the gay people I know want their kids to be happy, healthy, well loved and well educated and I've not met one of them YET, who puts their kids sexuality out front.
Being gay IMHO is like a club foot or any other birth defect. It's a person shaped outwardly like a man or woman, wired inside the opposite way. We know people are genetically predisposed for addictive behavior, mental illness, diseases of all sorts, etc. To me the difference is this, some people work to overcome their malady, some people wallow in it, the GLAAD crowd has made it a cause and a lifestyle.
I think they re wrong, but it's probably better to be raised by two mommies or two daddies, than by many of the worthless fucks I know of.
And here's my last thought.
Kids now, and for the last 20 odd years anyway, treat sex the way kids in my teen and twenties years treated drugs. It may have scared mom and dad and Nixon to death, but we thought nothing of it. They have no fear, loathing or sense of propriety having mixed partner, mixed sex role, multi-partner sex, or even group sex. The gub'ment has seen fit, and is hide bound to aid and abet this foolishness across the board, in the name of personal freedom.
Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure this falls under the historical heading of bread and circuses, and will kill our civilization. But it goes much deeper too, than just good or bad parenting.
is my name, not Ben Dover!
how about providing some scientific evidence that they won't?
Ignoramus... How many times do you need to be told that it is physically impossible to prove a negative? It cannot be done. YOU are making the claim that being raised by homosexuals is harmful, so YOU prove it.
Being raised by homosexuals may not be harmful, but I'll bet it hurts being reared by them
Four friends, who hadn't seen each other in 30 years, reunited at a party. After several drinks, one of the men had to use the rest room.
Those who remained talked about their kids.
The first guy said, 'My son is my pride and joy. He started working at a successful company at the bottom of the barrel. He studied Economics and Business Administration and soon began to climb the corporate ladder and now he's the president of the company. He became so rich that he gave his best friend a top of the line Mercedes for his birthday.'
The second guy said, 'Darn, that's terrific! My son is also my pride and joy. He started working for a big airline, then went to flight school to become a pilot. Eventually he became a partner in the company, where he owns the majority of its assets He's so rich that he gave his best friend a brand new jet for his birthday.'
The third man said, 'Well, that's terrific! My son studied in the best universities and became an engineer. Then he started his own construction company and is now a multimillionaire. He also gave away something very nice and expensive to his best friend for his birthday: A 30,000 square foot mansion.'
The three friends congratulated each other just as the fourth returned from the restroom and asked: 'What are all the congratulations for?'
One of the three said, 'We were talking about the pride we feel for the successes of our sons ... What about your son?'
The fourth man replied, 'My son is gay and makes a living dancing as a stripper at a nightclub.'
The three friends said: 'What a shame ... What a disappointment.'
The fourth man replied: 'No, I'm not ashamed. He's my son and I love him. And he hasn't done too bad either. His birthday was 2 weeks ago, and he received a beautiful 30,000 square foot mansion, a brand new jet and a top of the line Mercedes from his three boyfriends..
ROFLMAO!
Actually, Goober, the onus is on you for proof. The norm for a family is children with mom and dad and sometimes with a single parent (though that has shown to be far inferior to a 2 hetero parent model). Homosexuals adopting children is outside the proven norm so in order to allow it the proof should be on those in favor of it to show that it is not harmful. You just can't introduce a new kind of family and then say "prove its not good." That that is the homosexual MO, to introduce something new to society and put the burden of proof on society to prove its bad. The correct response is to toss that burden onto the change agent but you have fallen for the propaganda. If you want to learn what you fell for I suggest reading the gay rights manifesto "After the Ball."
Missy,
I'm not going to disagree with your statements, but I think "norm" is the wrong word. "Traditional" is what I think you meant. "Norm" is the term the pointy headed liberals WANT us to use, so as to imply our disdain for their NON-norm behavior.
It's the same kind of word game they play with abortion supporters being pro-CHOICE, not pro-KILLING of fetuses.
Totally inequivalent
I think I like the word "normal" or even "natural" as traditional implies hetero parenting as just a tradition when in fact its based on biology and sexual reproduction and just the human design where its best to be raised of parents of opposite sexes.
It's more like the moral equivalent to conservatives who enjoy hunting vs liberal vegetarians who are pro-choice.
I don't know how anyone can reconcile those differences.
Yea BOW I love those cars that have bumper stickers that say "Meat is Murder" "Save the Whales" "Hug a Tree" "Stop Animal Testing Now" and of course "I am Pro Choice".
Nuke the whales
And then eat 'em. :-9
Eat me
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