Especially if the Europeans think the Israelis are the aggressors. . . Steve .
18 comments:
Anonymous
said...
...plus the media carefully notes how many 'innocent civilians' are killed the the [evil] Israelis - who are doing this for reasons they just can't seem to fathom. No matter how many rockets have been fired into Israel by those happy-go-lucky freedom fighters [known as Hamas], the damage caused by same, or the true number of casualties on the Israel side, they are shocked that Israel dares to be fighting back.
I have 2 friends working over there and they told another buddy that a rocket slammed into a school yard and killed 19 children.
Since the media has neglected to report this incident, the little bastards must have deserved it.
My feelings are that the Israelis should lay total waste to Gaza, turn it into a huge lifeless gravel field. Collateral damage? Nah. The people there know full well what Hamas is up to, so - by inaction - they've aligned themselves with the terrorists.
Bill, I agree. But the European Handwringers and Perpetual Protesters Association won't allow them to be killed off. They really do believe that the terrorists can be talked with and appeased. I have but one name for them to recall on that count.
What really surprised me yesterday was to see the large anti-Israel protests in Manhattan which included many jews. Perhaps it proves an opinion held by many that there's no great love lost between American jews, who are usually part of the Left or far-Left, and Israelis, who tend to be far more conservative.
I also believe the ground action by Israel will turn out to be a mistake. The only chance Hammas has is to turn world opinion against Israel and make them appear as the aggressor, and it's already working. Israel should've set-up tanks and artillery along it's border with Gaza. (along with it's air power) Whenever rockets are fired into Israel, simply return the fire tenfold. Why risk the lives of your troops for what will probably be, no real gain.
It is nothing but pure cowardice to hide yourself amongst civilians. Israel takes the rocket launching from Hamas, then when they decide to fire back, "innocent" civilians die.
C dash Bug, your right. But the Hamas rocketeers are civilians. There is no true Palestinian Army, nor military targets for the Isrealis to attack. We tend to equate the firing of military hardware to be done by a military. That's not necessarily the case around the perimeter of Israel.
If the Palestinians who live in Gaza, or elsewhere, really wanted peace, they'd do like the Iraqis have done. They'd take their own military hardware, and chase out the trouble makers and rocketeers.
what??? the Iraqis have learned how to govern themselves???? Someone better tell all the liberal scum sucking defeatists before Obama is sworn in on the koran
Good point Steve. Terrorists are not a military force in the true sense. When our warriors went into Iraq, they couldn't tell the difference between terrorists and civilians, (if you believe there is a difference) a fact that got many of them killed. In the middle east, a civilian is just a terrorist who ran out of ammo then dropped his weapon.
The solution to this problem is really easy, assuming there are no TV news crews around.
If I'm rather quiet on this particular topic, well, it would be repeating logic endlessly. References to talkimg to a fucking wall or to the pseudointellectual who crawled out from the devil's ass to irk the folks here.
I will always exhaust non-violent means before resorting to this sort of action. But when the time comes, fight with all your might. Your enemy will not do less. What? wait until it escalates? No! Take them all out..
Here is something that no one ahs said, and I don't speak for anyone but me.
We hear from all sides about the poor Palestinians, of which there are many, caught up in this as innocents.
What everyone fails to acknowledge is that the majority in Gaza is complicent in the terror. And this is why. Many claim that Hamas was elected democratically. Okay. Then they preferred to back known terrorsts who will stop at nothing short than the inhilation of Israel. And they must deal with that reality, even though Israel itself is being as careful as possible to avoid collateral casualties.
The "legitimate" government of the Palestinian Territory is Hamas, an organization that could at best be coompared to Hezbollah of Lebanon and at worst to al Qaeda of Afghanistan or the Pakistani Taliban that was responsible for the Mumbai attacks.
In any case, all of these organizations are composed of terrorists who have no cumpuncions against storing munitions in schools and private homes so that they can trot out all of the dead children and civilians killed by Israeli "aggression." Neither do they have any cumpunctions against killing non-combatants, including women and children in pursuit of the destruction of their enemies. The legitimate government of Palestine is on a par with Islamic Jihad and the Muslim Brotherhood, cowardly thugs and common criminals.
I wonder how many rockets these Europeans would tolerate being launched into THEIR neighborhoods before they were screaming bloody murder for someone to be held accountable.
It is always simple to stand on flawed principal when it is not your children walking to school amidst Qassan rockets falling in the schoolyard. Personally, I would like to congratualte Israel on their monumental amount of patience with that so far. It would have taken a grand total of one, count it, ONE, rocket on my front lawn before I went a-hunting for those responsible, and made sure it never happened again, by whatever means necessary.
Wake up Europe, if you were within range of the Qassan, they'd undoubtedly be shooting them at you, too!
Hitler was also elected democratically. A physician with whom I worked in Denver got his medical training in the Israeli army. I talked with him extensively about life in a country surrounded by countries and organizations who are dedicated to killing you and wiping your country off the map. Most Americans, me included have absolutely no idea of what living in this manner would entail.
Who carries weapons in Israel?
Servicemen and women, on duty and off, in uniform or not. Reservists, Cops, Ambulance Drivers, Firemen, Teachers, Security Guards, Businessmen, and anyone else that has a valid carry permit. Jews, Arabs, and Christians (and everyone else) all carry weapons.
Rifles are generally issued by the IDF and carried by Servicemen and Reservists, although if you live in an area deemed by the Government to be a high risk (that’s almost every small town in Israel today) you can be issued a rifle for civil defense. There is mandatory military training for Jewish and Druze men and Jewish women over the age of 18 for 2-3years.
I learned Krav Maga from a former המוסד למודיעין ולתפקידים מיוחדים agent. If I were not too old and too fat I would convert to Judaism and go to Israel to join the Mossad.
"Most Americans, me included have absolutely no idea of what living in this manner would entail."
Undoubtedly. Even worse, having the ability to DO SOMETHING about it, but being constrained by the kinder and gentler proponents among us. That would be even worse for me. Constantly living under the fear of anihilation (assuming the 100 million bad guys all around me got organized) of me and my family, and my 5 million or so countrymen; going to work every day not knowing whether today is the day that they finally drop the hammer and I go to war whether I want to or not...
The stress of that has got to be a killer.
I have always looked at the Israeli situation with a very simple, and very telling analysis to remind myself of who the good guys are and who the bad guys are.
If the arabs living amongst and around the Israeli state laid down ther weapons tomorrow, and never again picked them up, there would be peace in Palestine forever.
If the Israelis laid down their weapons and never picked them up again, there would be a second holocaust.
The will of the majority is not always right, just, or proper. In fact, more often than not, it isn't any of the above. Democracy is majority mob rule. it is two wolves and a lamb deciding what is for lunch. Democracy is NOT good; it is despotism veiled under a thin robe of "fairness".
That is why our founding fathers despised it so, and instead of a democracy, set up a constitutional republic for our governmental system. (as a darkly humorous aside, one of the most virulent opponents of democracy in ancient Athens was Socrates, who, later, was unjustly executed by decree of popular vote in Athens. Is there an opposite to irony?)
Popular opinion on democracy being a good thing has gotten us the stupidity that is the proposition system, and direct election of senators, which has rendered the senate useless and impotent for it's original purpose. Any time that pure democracy has been injected into our system, it has been a bad thing.
Prop 8, for example, set a precedent that the people have the right to upend the constitution (I hope it gets shot down).
Various propositions in Washington state have set wildlife management on its ear, due to the "bunny hugger" influence, and now, we have serious wildlife management problems that we are unable to remedy.
The only time that I have seen a prop. do good is when the legislation of washington state started taxing us too much for vehicle excise taxes, we told them to knock it off. Even that was a blunt instrument for a complex problem, though, which could have been remedied by people contacting their state legislator and demanding relief (if things would just work the way they are supposed to). That would have created a more reasonable and logical response to this problem, rather than reducing all excise taxes to $30 flat fee no matter what. The year before the proposition passed, it cost my Dad $725 to license his truck. The year later, it was $45. A happier medium could have been found, I fear, because soon after this proposition, some pretty severe budget shortfalls showed up in our state udget. Amazing.
That Hitler was elected democratically is no surprise to me. I am surprised by the fact that more despots are not democratically elected.
Prop 8, for example, set a precedent that the people have the right to upend the constitution (I hope it gets shot down).
That's true, Goob. I don't talk much about that around here because it's such an emotional, hot-button issue. If the tyranny of the majority was the law of the land, we'd still have slavery and women would not have the right to vote or serve on juries.
18 comments:
...plus the media carefully notes how many 'innocent civilians' are killed the the [evil] Israelis - who are doing this for reasons they just can't seem to fathom. No matter how many rockets have been fired into Israel by those happy-go-lucky freedom fighters [known as Hamas], the damage caused by same, or the true number of casualties on the Israel side, they are shocked that Israel dares to be fighting back.
I have 2 friends working over there and they told another buddy that a rocket slammed into a school yard and killed 19 children.
Since the media has neglected to report this incident, the little bastards must have deserved it.
My feelings are that the Israelis should lay total waste to Gaza, turn it into a huge lifeless gravel field. Collateral damage? Nah. The people there know full well what Hamas is up to, so - by inaction - they've aligned themselves with the terrorists.
Remove the terrorists of the world and their enablers, and we can have world peace.
Bill,
I agree. But the European Handwringers and Perpetual Protesters Association won't allow them to be killed off. They really do believe that the terrorists can be talked with and appeased. I have but one name for them to recall on that count.
Neville Chamberlain.
awe - just wait until Jan 20th when Obama is available to talk to them - peace in our time!
What really surprised me yesterday was to see the large anti-Israel protests in Manhattan which included many jews. Perhaps it proves an opinion held by many that there's no great love lost between American jews, who are usually part of the Left or far-Left, and Israelis, who tend to be far more conservative.
I also believe the ground action by Israel will turn out to be a mistake. The only chance Hammas has is to turn world opinion against Israel and make them appear as the aggressor, and it's already working. Israel should've set-up tanks and artillery along it's border with Gaza. (along with it's air power) Whenever rockets are fired into Israel, simply return the fire tenfold. Why risk the lives of your troops for what will probably be, no real gain.
It is nothing but pure cowardice to hide yourself amongst civilians. Israel takes the rocket launching from Hamas, then when they decide to fire back, "innocent" civilians die.
C dash Bug,
your right. But the Hamas rocketeers are civilians. There is no true Palestinian Army, nor military targets for the Isrealis to attack. We tend to equate the firing of military hardware to be done by a military. That's not necessarily the case around the perimeter of Israel.
If the Palestinians who live in Gaza, or elsewhere, really wanted peace, they'd do like the Iraqis have done. They'd take their own military hardware, and chase out the trouble makers and rocketeers.
what???
the Iraqis have learned how to govern themselves????
Someone better tell all the liberal scum sucking defeatists before Obama is sworn in on the koran
Good point Steve. Terrorists are not a military force in the true sense. When our warriors went into Iraq, they couldn't tell the difference between terrorists and civilians, (if you believe there is a difference) a fact that got many of them killed. In the middle east, a civilian is just a terrorist who ran out of ammo then dropped his weapon.
The solution to this problem is really easy, assuming there are no TV news crews around.
Spider:
Nothing surprises me in NYC or the world any more.
That differs with the dismay and general stupiidty I see..
And I'll say that to your face.....because I am thirsty and we are overdue!
If I'm rather quiet on this particular topic, well, it would be repeating logic endlessly. References to talkimg to a fucking wall or to the pseudointellectual who crawled out from the devil's ass to irk the folks here.
I will always exhaust non-violent means before resorting to this sort of action. But when the time comes, fight with all your might. Your enemy will not do less. What? wait until it escalates? No! Take them all out..
Here is something that no one ahs said, and I don't speak for anyone but me.
We hear from all sides about the poor Palestinians, of which there are many, caught up in this as innocents.
What everyone fails to acknowledge is that the majority in Gaza is complicent in the terror. And this is why. Many claim that Hamas was elected democratically. Okay. Then they preferred to back known terrorsts who will stop at nothing short than the inhilation of Israel. And they must deal with that reality, even though Israel itself is being as careful as possible to avoid collateral casualties.
The "legitimate" government of the Palestinian Territory is Hamas, an organization that could at best be coompared to Hezbollah of Lebanon and at worst to al Qaeda of Afghanistan or the Pakistani Taliban that was responsible for the Mumbai attacks.
In any case, all of these organizations are composed of terrorists who have no cumpuncions against storing munitions in schools and private homes so that they can trot out all of the dead children and civilians killed by Israeli "aggression." Neither do they have any cumpunctions against killing non-combatants, including women and children in pursuit of the destruction of their enemies. The legitimate government of Palestine is on a par with Islamic Jihad and the Muslim Brotherhood, cowardly thugs and common criminals.
Well said Billy, and i'm thirsty to! How about a great Bay Ridge steak with those drinks this time?
Hmmm...
I wonder how many rockets these Europeans would tolerate being launched into THEIR neighborhoods before they were screaming bloody murder for someone to be held accountable.
It is always simple to stand on flawed principal when it is not your children walking to school amidst Qassan rockets falling in the schoolyard. Personally, I would like to congratualte Israel on their monumental amount of patience with that so far. It would have taken a grand total of one, count it, ONE, rocket on my front lawn before I went a-hunting for those responsible, and made sure it never happened again, by whatever means necessary.
Wake up Europe, if you were within range of the Qassan, they'd undoubtedly be shooting them at you, too!
Hitler was also elected democratically. A physician with whom I worked in Denver got his medical training in the Israeli army. I talked with him extensively about life in a country surrounded by countries and organizations who are dedicated to killing you and wiping your country off the map. Most Americans, me included have absolutely no idea of what living in this manner would entail.
Who carries weapons in Israel?
Servicemen and women, on duty and off, in uniform or not. Reservists, Cops, Ambulance Drivers, Firemen, Teachers, Security Guards, Businessmen, and anyone else that has a valid carry permit. Jews, Arabs, and Christians (and everyone else) all carry weapons.
Rifles are generally issued by the IDF and carried by Servicemen and Reservists, although if you live in an area deemed by the Government to be a high risk (that’s almost every small town in Israel today) you can be issued a rifle for civil defense. There is mandatory military training for Jewish and Druze men and Jewish women over the age of 18 for 2-3years.
I learned Krav Maga from a former המוסד למודיעין ולתפקידים מיוחדים agent. If I were not too old and too fat I would convert to Judaism and go to Israel to join the Mossad.
"Most Americans, me included have absolutely no idea of what living in this manner would entail."
Undoubtedly. Even worse, having the ability to DO SOMETHING about it, but being constrained by the kinder and gentler proponents among us. That would be even worse for me. Constantly living under the fear of anihilation (assuming the 100 million bad guys all around me got organized) of me and my family, and my 5 million or so countrymen; going to work every day not knowing whether today is the day that they finally drop the hammer and I go to war whether I want to or not...
The stress of that has got to be a killer.
I have always looked at the Israeli situation with a very simple, and very telling analysis to remind myself of who the good guys are and who the bad guys are.
If the arabs living amongst and around the Israeli state laid down ther weapons tomorrow, and never again picked them up, there would be peace in Palestine forever.
If the Israelis laid down their weapons and never picked them up again, there would be a second holocaust.
Tell me I'm wrong.
"Hitler was also elected democratically"
Need I repeat myself endlessly? :)
The will of the majority is not always right, just, or proper. In fact, more often than not, it isn't any of the above. Democracy is majority mob rule. it is two wolves and a lamb deciding what is for lunch. Democracy is NOT good; it is despotism veiled under a thin robe of "fairness".
That is why our founding fathers despised it so, and instead of a democracy, set up a constitutional republic for our governmental system. (as a darkly humorous aside, one of the most virulent opponents of democracy in ancient Athens was Socrates, who, later, was unjustly executed by decree of popular vote in Athens. Is there an opposite to irony?)
Popular opinion on democracy being a good thing has gotten us the stupidity that is the proposition system, and direct election of senators, which has rendered the senate useless and impotent for it's original purpose. Any time that pure democracy has been injected into our system, it has been a bad thing.
Prop 8, for example, set a precedent that the people have the right to upend the constitution (I hope it gets shot down).
Various propositions in Washington state have set wildlife management on its ear, due to the "bunny hugger" influence, and now, we have serious wildlife management problems that we are unable to remedy.
The only time that I have seen a prop. do good is when the legislation of washington state started taxing us too much for vehicle excise taxes, we told them to knock it off. Even that was a blunt instrument for a complex problem, though, which could have been remedied by people contacting their state legislator and demanding relief (if things would just work the way they are supposed to). That would have created a more reasonable and logical response to this problem, rather than reducing all excise taxes to $30 flat fee no matter what. The year before the proposition passed, it cost my Dad $725 to license his truck. The year later, it was $45. A happier medium could have been found, I fear, because soon after this proposition, some pretty severe budget shortfalls showed up in our state udget. Amazing.
That Hitler was elected democratically is no surprise to me. I am surprised by the fact that more despots are not democratically elected.
Prop 8, for example, set a precedent that the people have the right to upend the constitution (I hope it gets shot down).
That's true, Goob. I don't talk much about that around here because it's such an emotional, hot-button issue. If the tyranny of the majority was the law of the land, we'd still have slavery and women would not have the right to vote or serve on juries.
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